Whether 'tis Nobler...

[doniago]

In my attempts to try to explain the Lyceum to people I feel like I've just made a mess of things. People aren't getting it, quite possibly because I'm not explaining it well. But the worst part is that I feel like people don't _want_ to get it to some degree. I feel like they're reflexively assuming this is some sort of attempt to supplant the EKU when it's nothing of the sort. I've thought about deleting my posts on the SCA LJ Community, I've thought about just freezing them, and I've thought about leaving the community entirely.

And I've also thought about trying to fight the good fight and continue trying to fight what I perceive to be misapprehensions.

What really saddens me? I point out that someone (I have no idea who) started talking up my posting to the Maunche list, and people are more concerned with the fact that I know about this despite being a non-Maunche, and that someone told me about it, than they are with the fact that someone didn't even have the basic courtesy to say "Hey, would you mind if I brought up the Lyceum on the Maunche list to see how people there feel?" Would it have killed someone to do this?

Sigh.

I still think the Lyceum is worth pursuing. I think some people get it. I think more people _could_ get it. I think there's a real chance I'm explaining it badly. I think there's a real chance that some people just won't get it until they have a chance to experience it.

I...I just don't know anymore. But I think it deserves a chance to be tried, and I'll do what I can to give it that chance. Why? Because if it succeeds in what it's trying to do, it could be totally worth it.

As to the SCA Community issue...like I said, I'm tired of playing Sole Defender, but if there are people who genuinely like to hear what I have to say, maybe it's worth it in the end, right?

[Poll #1180482]

Comments

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

Those are valid questions, Iago.

I think a lot of us would like to see them answered.

This proposal is way too murky and shadowy at this point.

[doniago.livejournal.com]

I'm not questioning the questions' validity. It just seemed as though they may have been intended to be rhetorical based on the tone of the comment.

If that's not the case I'll be happy to address them to the best of my ability.

Embrace the power of "and".

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

Yes, I would like to know what value you intend this endeavor to provide for the people of the East.

Re: Embrace the power of "and".

[doniago.livejournal.com]

I apologize for the caustic way I'm about to phrase this, but I can't come up with a better one right now...are you genuinely interested in the development of the Lyceum, or is it reasonably unlikely that anything that could be said/done would change your opinion that it's a really bad idea? Because if you've made up your mind...talking about this is a real stress for me right now, and I just don't want to put the energy into something with little chance of success if I can devote my energies to something that has better odds.

I'm working out how best to start up an LJ-Community that will allow people to ask questions and allow me (and/or others) to provide answers in a way that will be a bit more relaxed and far less personally stress-inducing than things have been for the past 48 hours. You would be welcome to join me there, but it will be intended as a "constructive criticism" venue based on the idea that the Lyceum _will_ happen at some point, with or without me. Of course, maybe it won't happen, but what's the point in talking about something that won't happen, right?

God I need a weekend. And hard liquor. Hard liquor good.

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

Here's the thing: I don't have a dog in this fight in any possible way. I am approaching this "Lyceum" strictly on the merits of what you have said and tempered by my own knowledge of and experience with SCA politics, which is tolerably broad. If you cannot convince someone like me, who is assessing this idea academically and using logic and experience, and who stands neither to gain nor lose by it, how can you hope to convince the people who are going to stand the cost?

You should not be asking yourself what you can say to convince me; you should be asking yourself what you can say to convince the people of the East that this will provide value to their SCA experience which will make it worth the cost of implementation and ongoing support.

Re: Embrace the power of "and".

[derekl1963.livejournal.com]

"are you genuinely interested in the development of the Lyceum, or is it reasonably unlikely that anything that could be said/done would change your opinion that it's a really bad idea?"

Neither Cat nor I have ever stated this was a bad idea - we merely question whether it is a good idea and will provide value, which is a different thing entirely.

"You would be welcome to join me there, but it will be intended as a "constructive criticism" venue based on the idea that the Lyceum _will_ happen at some point, with or without me."

I've been half waiting for that shoe to drop - have been met with questions which you are unable or unwilling to answer, you declare you will only deal with "constructive criticism". This almost always translates as "we'll only listen to what we want, folks who disagree with us will be silenced or ignored".

Re: Embrace the power of "and".

[doniago.livejournal.com]

"Neither Cat nor I have ever stated this was a bad idea - we merely question whether it is a good idea and will provide value, which is a different thing entirely."

I'm cool with that. It did appear as though you felt it was a bad idea, but perhaps I read too much into your statements.

"I've been half waiting for that shoe to drop - have been met with questions which you are unable or unwilling to answer, you declare you will only deal with "constructive criticism". This almost always translates as "we'll only listen to what we want, folks who disagree with us will be silenced or ignored"."

Perhaps you will be pleasantly surprised and it will actually translate to "If you have something helpful to say that's pretty cool. If you just want to bitch about it, take it somewhere else."

Re: Embrace the power of "and".

[albreda.livejournal.com]

Um... as frustrating/unpleasant as it may be, if there is going to be a really OPEN discussion about this, you need to let folks say what they actually think, and not try and censor it. If folks are rude, ignore them, but if you only allow yes men answers, you are not engaging in open discussion.

(And if that means that you only check it once every two days, and then just post a single clarification, or -gasp- let someone else on the Lyceum Committee do some of the hard work of listening to and answering the tough questions, that is ok too. No driving yourself to drink trying to handle all of this in two minutes flat all by yourself!)

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

I do actually think it's a bad idea, but I think that it is a bad idea because nothing I have seen has indicated that it will provide value to the population it is ostensibly intended to serve.

I'd be willing to be convinced were it not that efforts to convince me seem limited to the statement that I don't get it. :)

[doniago.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the smiley.

Seriously, that's all I can handle right now.